Wikipedia founder: Trump deserves 'perverse credit' for having 'played the entire world'
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Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales said in a new interview that President TrumpDonald John TrumpTrump mocks wind power: 'When the wind doesn't blow, just turn off the television' Pentagon investigator probing whether acting chief boosted former employer Boeing Trump blasts McCain, bemoans not getting 'thank you' for funeral MORE deserves “perverse credit” for how he “played the entire world.” 

"Donald Trump is a very talented man as a TV character, as a manipulator of the media, of news agenda. He's played the entire world. We have to give him some kind of perverse credit for that," Wales told Business Insider. 

Wales said the president "lies all the time and openly and cavalierly doesn't care about the truth.”

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But the Wikipedia founder added that he is "optimistic" there will be an "enormous backlash" against Trump before the presidential election in 2020.

"These kind of things are sinking in,” he continued. “The idea that we first of all need to be able to trust our politicians to be honest, then we can have a serious debate about policy is really important." 

Wales also spent part of the interview promoting his new journalism operation, called Wiki Tribune. Wales said the mission of the site is to debunk fake news and serve as a platform for underreported stories that deserve more attention.

"It's not easy to find the facts," Wales added. "You have to be serious about it, you have to think carefully about reason and logic and how do you determine what is quality evidence and so forth, rather than trusting the latest tweet that comes across the line."